And away we go …
I respect people’s beliefs. Wait, that’s not entirely correct. I respect people having the right to believe, not necessarily what they believe. It’s important I am concise in this as I have a feeling this could turn into a volatile subject, as it has in the past. So, let me rephrase again. I respect people having the right to believe provided it does not impede on the rights of another. I’ll probably rephrase again by the time we’re doing discussing this.
Maybe an example will help illustrate what I’m having trouble with. Why sugar coat? Why not just be my usual blunt self?
I truly hate the Amarr. The Amarr enslaved my people all in the name of their religion. I can respect the beliefs of many Ammatar and Amarr, as they hold strong convictions in their belief of their God. While I do not agree with their views, as I have my own that I am very passionate about, I respect that they can choose to believe whatever the hell they want. It could be flying hippo chocolate turds for all I care.
Each individual’s belief in this universe are personal, and should be respected.
Yet I told you I hate the Amarr. I do. Many Amarr have gone beyond just having a belief. They’ve taken it upon themselves to enforce their belief system on others. Those who refuse to acknowledge their point of view as right are labelled as ignorant heathens and slated for destruction if they cannot be converted to righteousness.
Enforcing your views on someone else is abhorrent.
Don’t misunderstand. I’ve manipulated people in my day. Sometimes it easy. I actually have little to no respect for someone who states that they passionately and strongly believe what they believe only to have me twist their logic during a single conversation to the point where they now believe what I want them to believe. Why does that bother me? It bothers me because their conviction in their own belief system is weak, and was easily pliable. That means the next strong willed person to come along can sway their opinion again, probably as easily as I did.
People should know why they believe what they believe, not just blindly accept things. Be able to talk about it intelligently, defend your belief, take pride in your belief, stand up for your belief, be prepared to endure the consequences inflicted by those that disagree with your belief.
Again, my belief is to live and let live until someone interferes with the basic life rights of another being. Then I will come at you strong.
So back to the Amarr. The Caldari have allied with them, supporting the notion that the State and the Empire must purge the galaxy of lesser quality beings. While their beliefs are not identical, they can support each other to a common goal. Some call this a bandwagon.
Another example is actually Sansha’s Nation. Did you know that Sansha Kuvakei started out as a socialite with a techno-fetish? It was a personal choice that caught on with his peers. They were all constantly trying to one up each other with the latest tech implant, seeing who could graft humanity with technology the most artistically.
To me, as a capsuleer, I understand blending technology with biology. I have implants in my skull, and along my neck and upper spline. It is the foundation of the technology employed to allow me to command starships with my brain, as well as preserve that same brain across cloned bodies when I suffer death from poor decisions made. Of course, it was a painful experience to become a capsuleer, and every time I die I feel it the same as the first time I experienced it. It’s hard on the body, hard on the mind. It’s hard on the soul.
I don’t understand why Kuvakei and his ilk would willingly subject themselves to these types of experiments, all in the name of art. But I don’t have to understand. In the beginning, they weren’t hurting anyone. Their belief system was odd to others, but it was a voluntary belief system that did not encroach upon the rights of others.
That all changed when Kuvakei was exposed for conducting some of the grafting sessions on unwilling participants. He crossed a line and was banished. Nowadays, he’s so far gone that his vain, mad attempts to enslave and enlighten the galaxy through technology are a constant threat to all the Empires.
It’s another example of a group forcing their beliefs on others, and it’s morally wrong.
My hope is that so far you’re in agreement with me, as these have been very black and white examples. I live black and white. Things either are, or they aren’t. Most of us live in the grey. It’s just never been for me.
Let’s move to a less obvious example. This is where it potentially gets volatile.
The Gallente Federation is a very progressively minded society. They engage in all types of liberal sexual activities, recreational substance activities, and other things a traditional minded fella like me finds repulsive. Maybe repulsive is too strong a word. On second thought, it fits quite well. When I think about the lifestyle of the above average Gallentean (as with most New Eden societies, the average citizen clings to a meager existence), I think to myself “That lifestyle is definitely not for me.”
But know what? More power to them.
They have the right to believe whatever they want to believe, as do I, provided we’re not encroaching on the rights of another. If I was to be told that I am narrow-minded and bigoted because I refuse to embrace this Gallente way of life as acceptable and normal, well, you’d see a very irate Roc at that moment.
I don’t enforce my beliefs on you, so you better leave me the hell alone about yours.
Case in point, what this has all been building up to.
An Amarr entrepreneur has built up a very successful fast food chain across New Eden. His wares can be found in nearly any station across the galaxy. This is no small feat for a norm, and is a testament to his business acumen.
Over the last decade, there has been a vocal minority group within the Federation that has been crying out for equality. They believe they deserve the same rights that have been given to Gallente citizens for generations, and that the laws need to be updated accordingly. They have a point. Personally, I disagree with it, but who cares what I think? If they want to open dialogue, engage their government in a legal and peaceful manner to promote their agenda, who are any of us to try to stop them?
Well, ok, that’s not accurate. Any other Gallentean has the right to disagree with their position and again through peaceful and legal methods, oppose their agenda. This is the nature of politics really. Hell, I have every right as a Minmatar to disagree with their point of view simply as I exist as a living, breathing being within New Eden.
So far, everything’s fine and dandy, right? Right.
Then things started to change. This minority group, right or wrong, started to gain momentum. Their voices grew louder, they gained more mainstream support. Good for them. They were moving their agenda, as they have the right to.
There was a defining moment, in my opinion, and I wish I could pinpoint exactly where and when, but the balance shifted. It was no longer about equality even though that is the banner still waved to this day, but rather became about embracing their belief system. Suddenly, there were parades with such vulgar displays that were I to hold such an event, I would probably end up thrown in prison, but because it’s part of their “cause”, it has been embraced and accepted as ok. I think that was a mistake, and I’ll tell you why.
I love women. I love sex with women. I love knowing when a woman wants me more than she wants her next breath. I like to think I’m pretty good with women, especially in the bedroom. That’s the key word there. Bedroom. The privacy of my own bedroom. In there, I can do whatever the hell I want, and it’s nobody’s business. Where would I get off thinking it acceptable and normal to expose myself publicly with such exhibitions as I would normally contain to the privacy of my own bedroom? Where would I get the balls to think that was ok and that if others didn’t support my belief system, they were the ones that had problems?
It sounds more vain and egocentric than even I can muster.
Back to the Amarr entrepreneur.
He has decided to state his beliefs, as is his right. He has stated that his restaurants, and its policies, openly oppose this Gallentean group’s agenda. Good for him. It’s his business. It’s his decision.
The bandwagon can’t contain the amount of people that have jumped on it since then. The hate back and forth, the accusations of ignorance all around, the political agendas, backstabbings, media manipulations and more. It’s all appalling.
It’s his damn business. He has the right to run it how he sees fit provided he’s not violating the basic rights of another. How do any of us have the right to call him bigoted and erotophobic simply because his belief systems doesn’t line up with ours? Where do we get the right to try to sabotage his business, which employs hundreds of thousands, directly affecting millions of lives, simply because he stated his belief?
Wouldn’t the logical solution be to simply take our business elsewhere? Wouldn’t that be peaceful and legal? Why do so many feel compelled to convert this way of thinking to theirs? Why do governments, society and media encourage this?
Earlier on I stated that I thought it fantastic that this Gallentean movement has gained ground. I still believe that. I think it’s great they are pushing for equality even if I personally disagree with their lifestyle.
I don’t agree with their methods. I don’t agree with the mentality of “you’re either for us or against us”. This is how wars are started, and while some might compare this to a war, trust me when I tell you it isn’t. At least not yet.
Mostly, I’m confused. I’m perplexed by a group that states they want understanding and tolerance from others yet fails to demonstrate that attribute in any way towards those that simply say “No, I don’t agree with you.”
In all honesty, I’ve been having these debates/conversations with many friends and colleagues lately, and it affects each and every one of us differently. Everyone has an opinion and a belief formed solely on their own educations and experiences. I respect each of them. One of them is even a Gallente, and a very active member of this movement. While we don’t necessarily see eye to eye on this topic, we respect each other enough to continue the conversation.
Really I think that’s how this could be resolved. Respect and conversation.
Get back to the basics beyond forcing your beliefs upon others. I mean, how’s that working out for the Amarr or any other historical dictatorship?
Food for thought.
ROC'S RAMBLINGS 
tldr…..KIDDING! xoxo
It seems we agree on a great many things, Roc. This is the second time in a week that an “event” has occurred in “New Eden” that we share a view on.
Keep up the awesome posts!
Cecil
The only “free” thoughts are “popular” thoughts. Makes you wonder why the Gallente keep on wanting to ban capsuleers..
Making a case from level ground is always a good bet. Getting higher for a better view of the land…well, let’s just say that things get heavier the higher they go in metaphysical land, and my big head has broken many branches I’ve tried to peak over. Anyone could make a remark on the disillusionment of each faction, to their failures or merits. Perhaps the majority of our people have forgotten the great eagle, what it’s shielded wings were meant to defend and not cover over. Why it faces the dawn, but instead looks on lustfully towards the cover of night. What the uninspired misguided populace does is hardly new. That they are seemingly the most enduring is conceivable only in that they do not stand apart by any remarkable characteristics, unsurprisingly. That their most valued traits, while flattering to themselves, are despised in others. The few that stand apart are known by name, worn like badges or curses forever to remain until the memory of one is remains clearer that the other. It is not possible for me to take a middle ground. My simple sword has but a handle and a point, so like the kind of speech I favor, the heart grasps one end to direct the tongue at the other. You are but a divided people. The tribes have never stood together. The Amarr love prattling about their ways and technological understandings, yet the skies are empty. The Corporations are too busy counting tally’s and LP risk/reward ratios, while we lounge around our stations poking for fleets in MilChat when none are their and deciding what else we could do with our time when there is. Though the brush has only one side, let’s not get any on our chins by thinking too much on what the canvas isn’t. Let’s just start shooting and the damn thing will paint itself.
Most people that call for tolerance and an end to bigotry, are the most bigoted and intolerant people you can find.
The Gallente have become so sure and so fervent about their “progressively minded”-ness that they no longer tolerate any idealogy but their own. In their progressiveness, they are becoming what they despised.
Roc,
Very well articulated point of view from your perspective, but… as a reminder to the people about to read the exchange, your perspective is of that of a Minmatar Capsuleer. Hardly a representative of the Minmatar People, nor am I as a Capsuleer of the Amarr, to which you freely admit your hate. But there is not conflict between you and me, at least not me to you, because I love the Minmatar People. I know much about them, even more than most Minmatars themselves. I have been a student of our shared history and our destiny. We are two very different people but yet we are more entangled and integrated then the populace of the Minmatar and Amarr find comfortable.
Your well phrased article talkes about having a converstation, and it is with your elegance of words I choose to respond. Not to educate, or re-educate you, but to add a voice to the topic your bring to bear. Your hate will blind you to my words. You will only see negative and dismiss me a as-yet-future response. So be it, it is not my first Space Whale Rodeo. Who then shall be enriched by our academic exchange, but the readers of these scripts. For they shall hear your voice and side by choice, but there can be no choice without the voice of another to add dimension. My the intelligent and reasonable decide their fates, as you and I are locked upon this discourse.
So with that said… it would be easy for me to confront you by saying “how dare you”… I’m not going to say that, but I am going to say that your perspective is not that of the common Minmatar tribal members. To simply combine the plight, hardship, and suffering of your mothers and children presently living in such poverty and despair. Also ignoring the History of the Minmatar people before we made first contact is very convenient to inspire more hate.
So a quick review for our undecided readers… Before the Amarr, your tribes of Sebiestor, Brutor, Krusual, Vherokior, Nefantar, and even the Thukkers all very prominant but never united in cause or culture. The Starkmanir was by far the worst of the lot being outspoken and fighting with everyone. Every effort to unite the tribes was a sad failure, but understandable of such pride inherent in your DNA. It is your strength to hold to your convictions that also inspires us Amarr into our convictions of God. Many a time in hushed breath I’ve heard that said.
We the Amarr descended upon your worlds we were aghast at the horrible living conditions of the people. It was no surprise why the cities had no major structure, or organization because it all was based upon in-fighting politics between the various tribes and parties within the tribes. You are indeed a VERY independent people, which is a strength and detriment to yourselves.
You also come from a hearty stock of DNA that can out work us in the fields, navy yards, and stations. Our first order of business was to establish order.
I hear it all the time, and in your words too…. “The Amarr have bled us white, the bastards. They’ve taken everything we had, not just from us, from our fathers. And what have they ever given us in return?”
Well my beloved Minmatar Capsuleer… we restored order and together built new aqueducts, sanitation, irrigation, medicine, education, health, and yes, let us not forget the roads that goes without saying.
Did everyone agree? Not in a Minmatar second but there were those that did. They would be killed by their brothers and sometimes sons that refuse to follow a wise fathers wisdom, all for the sake of an argumentative DNA. But alas, the real truth is, many of the Minmatar wanted to seek something else, a higher purpose in life.
You stated that we impose our religion upon thee. Those are fighting words like “how dare you”. But again, I will not use those words because what I will say is that you again are using your privileged perspective as a Capsuleer, and also a product of your own propaganda that continues its corrupt power. Need I remind our audience of your Midular’s unpopular and hugely corrupt government? No.. that’s its own topic of debate. Your clan chiefs are still arguing how to create a new government and it’s been a few years since Midulars removal.
But back to the topic… your accusation that we impose our religion. I can’t say no we don’t, but I also can say that is not accurate and that is why you and others use this ambiguity to further your own agendas. I can try to explain in a few words so here I go. We Amarr are free to choose our religion. As shocking as this maybe to our readers, it is also true for our Minmatar workers. We have come to your worlds and we have shown order. This order is not something we Amarr invented. It is something given to us in knowledge through our holy men of the Lord. We “follow” these orders of life because they make sense just as much sense of the light of our Suns. Those that see the truth can only see it if they work for it. Those that have endured hardship and suffering in life can only see the deliverance of such pain by finding the order.
We don’t impose our religion. People come to us, to it, to God. But here is where it gets tough because the Universe is a harsh nasty place and there is no room for error or second guessing. There is no room for discussion or committee which is exactly what the Minmatar do. So many times I have seen Mimatar meetings where they all discuss, “Something must be done. Let’s discuss this further.” God demands you do something to help your fellow citizens. God demands that through our love for all mankind, we extend our arms and embrace those in pain and suffering.
So I am not “that Amarr guy” taking away your right to hold your opinion, nor force you upon a path to your own salvation. That’s not what we do. Feel free to express your opinion so that people hearing our debate can understand how and why things are the way they are. Yes I have slaves. Per her highness Empriss Jaymly Sarum’s proclomation (oh yeah you forgot to mention that too) I offered passage to all my slaves return to Mini space. Out of 175 of my charge, only 2 accepted. The other 173 have stayed and 12 of them in total humility begged me to keep them with in God grace, peace and order. Do they work hard. By God yes they do and I’m thankful for them, and they appreciate me. Not your standard definition of slavery but then again, you are not exposed to the real truth from your one sided propaganda Capsuleer elitist position upon which you form your perspective.
Oh and those 2 that left. I missed them. I wanted to send them a gift to give them a new start in life so I made contact. I later learned that before my gift arrived, that had been robbed, beaten and killed by a Minmatar gang. So hate me. You are free to do so. But although I have met your type, and had this talk before, and sent their minds into new clones while their corpse floats in space… it is just a part of being immortal. I protect Minmatar non-Capsuleers because Iove the Minmatar people. Our destiny with God is set. Your hate will blind you to these words. Enjoy your hate.
I would agree that we capsuleers cannot be viewed as the standard citizens of any given empire in New Eden. The reason being many of us have seen things the standard citizen will never see.
Your usual planet dweller comes home from work turns on the news and while he enjoys his food – and probably the company of his family – he enjoys the catharsis – and interpretations – of whatever said news company feeds him.
This – in all honesty – is not much different in any of the empires. Because without the broader view on things your only option is to believe.
As a Caldari I have never understood the “democracy” Gallanteans are so often talking about – and I likely never will. But I do understand had I been born on Gallente Prime I would see things with different eyes.
So what I truly admire is your ability – after years as a capsuleer – to still cling to your cultural roots with such conviction.
Mind you, I would be the first to go into battle, if the Caldari States were truly threatened. But I would do so for my own reasons – not because of heritage or propaganda thrown at me.
Our corporation has healthy contacts and business in the Amarr and Minmatar space.
I think – though we as capsuleers think ourselves immortal – we might not yet have lived long enough to understand what that means.
Not long enough to see that we are perhaps doomed to one day all wake up in a cultural vacuum… As we will no longer be able to identify with our own heritage OR any other. We might end up thinking ourselves above Amarr restaurant owners or the next popular Gallente freedom movement. Or we might just feel exceedingly lonely. Time will tell…
I think what you just described is something like a big city, where it is not hard to find someone with similar ideals, but the drink makes me pretty slow, so be patient with me. I do not wish to say how much more willing one race is to another, but I will mention how fun such “features” would be to some, and how the service would grow, when things are done right. Roc has it right in many ways, yet I love yo disagree because he’s a lively fellow. Don’t hink so much on the side of opposites or what may seem customary. The differences in our ideals are nearly immortal in themselves, much less.do they need our help to point out age old differences. You do not see them because you do not know. Those who do have, have chosen sides. Us, Gallente, value each life, and freedom is not bought for many by the lives of a few. The Minnie’s share many views in common, but democracy spends only as much as it can afford, before it becomes an oligarchy. Who would ever question our ways, were our appointed representatives are diligent in all their ways?