Roc’s Rule #337

Gay marriage is important to me. It’s right up there with gay parking and gay lunch.

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27 responses to “Roc’s Rule #337

  1. Wow. I have read your blog for 2 years and always thought it was decent. But with this post you made me realize what a fucking moron you are. No I am not gay. But i do belive gay people have the as much right to express their love for eachother as straights. Jeeez.

    • You know, I was just telling someone about how I enjoy putting out “open” statements, as users end up inevitably posting their hostile reactions to what they think I said.

      I actually believe gay people have the same rights as everyone else. And black women. And Muslims. And the Dutch. And any other group you wish to bring up that fights for equality.

      My point with this rule is that I do not believe people should segregate themselves based on the very thing they are crying discrimination about. It only alienates their cause against narrow minded people with ignorant preconceptions.

      For example, marriage is marriage. Whether it’s between gays or not shouldn’t matter. The gay of it shouldn’t be the platform. In my opinion, a lot of homophobic people instantly are confrontational about something just because it says gay in front of it. So by mocking this mentality and mentioning gay lunch and gay parking, I’m showing the absurdity of it.

      A group should stand on the fact that they are humans and citizens of a proud country that entitles them to equality based on those facts alone, whether it’s gender, race, sexuality, religious belief, sexual preference, doesn’t matter. It shouldn’t be about being gay.

      Now, the way you read it is the other option. You read it that I am a hate filled, gay fearing closet homophobe who wants fire and brimstone to fall upon anyone that doesn’t do things the way society once defined it should be.

      Is that you projecting, or me being a fucking moron?

      Either way, I hope you continue to read my blog, as I enjoy having you as a reader. I also hope you realize I have no ill will towards you at all.

      And my political opinion is simply my own. In my experience, I’ve found any group that ostracizes me as an enemy because I won’t fully embrace their cause to be hypocritical. They want tolerance, but don’t give it in return. Ironic isn’t it? Believe what I believe or you’re the ignorant one. To me, that doesn’t speak of a true quest for equality, but rather a need to be heard and given special treatment.

      I’m not referring to gay groups here. I am referring to individuals whom have soured my experience with many different causes over the years.

    • I’m calm. Just having open discussion with a reader. And thanks for the link. I couldn’t remember where I paraphrased it from.

      Though to be fair, the original quote is less open ended than mine. Perhaps that is what sparked Kampohamster to respond so strongly.

      Btw, I respect a passionate discussion. I’d rather have someone call me out and tell me why, then just sit there anonymously being offended by me.

      Communication is the key to resolution.

  2. simmadownnow I say simma downa nowa 🙂 I laughed ( which was all the intent was unless I miss my guess of the man ) 🙂 TC Roc..no bicuit for you sir now go lay down…bad dog!

  3. To be fair to Kamph, you’ve often come close, at least in my opinion, to showing… a certain level of uncomfort about the subject of gay people, both in this blog and on twitter. “Impotence” most comes to mind where Roc gets pissed at the very implication that he’s gay (until he learns its a joke), and you’ve displayed a similar attitude on twitter when we’re joking about something along those lines.

    That being said, I take your statement to Kamph at face value, and I have no doubt that no ill will is intended. Heavens know that I’m not a fan of how some of the extremists on both sides of the debate take it. And even full supporters of gay rights can get irritated if they’re questioned again and again on it. But I can see where Kamph’s post comes from.

    And now I’ll stop trying to be the thought police and just shut up :-p

    • I think you’ve nailed it. It’s the extremists of any group that can give a bad name to the whole.

      For example, I’ve had certain religious representatives come to my door, and I’ve invited them in, fed them, and discussed their views for hours. I’ve pointed out logical loopholes in their belief system, and even tried to share my own beliefs. They’re more than happy to discuss my questions about their beliefs, but they will not listen to any view other than their own.

      To me, that is close-minded.

      One representative even told me that what I believed was wrong and unless I believed what they believed, I would be going to hell for eternity.

      Zero tolerance or respect for my beliefs.

      And of course, I would totally mock that on my blog. Does it mean I don’t think religion has a place, or is important to a lot of people, including myself? Of course not. It’s me getting things off my chest so I don’t blow a gasket.

      Case in point, I did blog once about getting pinched in the ass by a gay man, and me slapping him. Does that make me a gay hater? No. It just means that I don’t appreciate being violated regardless of what your standing in life is. It shows a disrespect towards me, and my personal space, and of course I’m going to react, which then gets used against me.

      Maybe that’s why I speak out so strongly about these things. There are a lot of good people out there with beliefs and lifestyles different than mine. I know many that feel the exact same way I do, as it only ends up affecting them negatively in the long run.

      This is a good conversational rant.

  4. Sorry roc but you Are wrong on this one. If you want to change something, you need to be prepared to fight for it. Gays currently do, as women and blacks before them. Things doesnt change by themselves. Things change because there is individuals with enough of a backbone to challenge – and Incidentally annoy to fuck out of – the establishment.

    • Never once did I say anyone shouldn’t fight for what they deserve. What I am pointing out is there are ways to effect positive change, and ways to simply be the current group that cries the loudest.

      I’m not talking about gay rights here anymore, I talk about all things of this nature.

      For example, me trying to throw my opinion at you, and telling you that if you don’t accept my opinion, you’re a hater, is the wrong way to effect change.

      Me having an open discussion with you, letting you know what I think and believe, and what I am entitled to, is different.

      I hope you can see that. I do thank you for the conversation.

  5. Again, I disagree. Sure, reasonable conversation will often work better than violent protest, but only if the points of view are not TOO far away from eachother to begin with. If they are, you are left with 2 choices. One, the Long term approach (generations), and two, the violent approach (not necessarily two-way violence). The women liberation I would say mainly followed the long term approach (with elements of the violent approach mixed in). The civil rights movement, the vietnam war protests etc however, followed the violent approach, although in Martin Luther Kings case, he was always receiving it. As for the gay movement, I estimate the opposing points of view (in the us at least) to be too far apart for reason to work.

    • But see, that’s just my point. Why are they so far apart? Who made it that way? To me, the entire gay issue surrounds marriage. Marriage is marriage; it shouldn’t be that far apart whether it’s between a man and woman, or a man and man.

      And honestly, I don’t see how violence would solve that issue. Make no mistake, I enjoy violence, sometimes for the stupidest thing, but I don’t think violence works in this given example.

      As demonstrated by this satirical post, my belief is that by de-escalating the issue, maybe people will see how silly it is that it became such a massive obstacle in the first place.

      • Lol. You blame the gays for inflaming the issue? Sorry man, but homosexuality has been a big nono for 2000 years, even if it is completely natural everywhere in nature. So, when people comes out and openly admit it, and even (gasp) demand some basic human rights, people will react – some even violently. Don’t blame the current situation on gay people. Blame it on 2000 years of religious indoctrination.

        • Do I keep miscommunicating with you, or do you keep misreading my words on purpose?

          I don’t blame the gays for their oppression. I blame both sides of the conflict.

          Like I said, I blame any individual, or group of individuals that goes to extremes to make their point known.

          Are all Muslims evil? Of course not. Can I condone the few that are extremists and suicide bomb for their beliefs? No.

          The great purge of the Catholics, the witch hunts of Salem, Hitler vs. the Jews, women’s rights, black rights, gay rights … all issues that could’ve gone, or can go, so very differently if humanity stopped giving in to its baser nature and learned how to evolve as a successful society.

          I mean, if we want to be primal, just let the two opposing parties get together on a field and battle it out. I thought we were more civilized than that is all.

          This coming from an ex-Colonel in a spaceship war.

  6. In the real world however Roc, there will be situations where reason will not work. And yes, there are issues and beliefs worth fighting for.

  7. Hey Roc, I am a big fan. I have been for about a year.

    When I first read your comment above, I felt that it was saying that you had little time to reflect on gay-anything. It seemed to be a bit of a slap at the efforts that a few million of our brothers and sisters are strugling with.

    I have both friends and relatives who are full-on gay. My sister has been in a relationship with a woman for almost 40 years. Other friends have been attacked and everyone I know who is gay has been discriminated against in some way. Most bear deep emotional scars.

    Frankly, I think that religious dogma is the real sickness, not the gay people. I am quite willing to believe that god is gay, and that non-human sexual proliferation may not be like it is on Earth on many other planets.

    In a society of beings who only have one form, lets say they create buds, or self-pollinate, they would regard heterosexuality as strange and possibly, evil.

    In the end, I believe that God wants acceptance and tolerance. Its individual humans who spread the hatred of sexuality in general that cause so much suffering.

    Please, while I do appreciate your witty sayings and I do get that you are trolling a bit in your original statement, imagine the WORLD of GOOD that your positive comments about tolerance would have. Many respect you.

    “I say what a man does in the privacy of his pod is between him and his pet monkey!”
    OK, thats a joke, but you see what I mean? A joke that does not reinforce tolerance runs the risk of hurting others in unexpected ways.

    Thanks for not backing off the subject when it got a bit wild. I like your forthright, no-nonsense approach to common sense and human rights in general.

    Thanks for the blog, I like it and I hope you continue.

    • Thank you for taking the time to write this heartfelt reply, and for your respect.

      If we’re honest with ourselves, we all know someone gay. They might be a coworker, a friend, family, it shouldn’t matter. It shouldn’t matter how we know them. It shouldn’t matter that they are gay.

      It’s like when I describe a woman. I describe her dark hair, her smoldering eyes, her beautiful features. Is she black? White? Does it matter? No.

      A human being deserves respect simply for existing. I agree with you regarding religion on the principle that the few sometimes ruin it for the many. What someone believes should be respected just as much as someone being gay. Sadly, like you mentioned, it’s overall intolerance that makes these conversations so tragic and sad.

      Persecution, regardless of its nature, is horrific. We have all experienced injustice and abuse; some from bullies, some from parents, for different reasons that ultimately don’t justify the behaviour.

      That doesn’t give us the right to bully others, or to rationalize our over the top actions as standing up for ourselves.

      Like I said, if we all actually took the time to listen to the other person’s heart instead of being so busy trying to bend them to our will, the universe would be a much better place for all.

      Fly safe.

  8. Read about half the comments before my TLDR drive kicked in and shot me down to the comment section. From what I understand of the debates though I agree with you Roc, By fighting for “Gay right” or “women’s rights” or “black rights” we are just building up more and more walls and enforcing that separation more and more when really we should just be fighting for “equal rights”

    Or two paraphrase one of my favorite gay comedians “If we keep saying that we want to be treated equally and that it shouldn’t matter who we love and what we do in the bedroom then why do we insist on holding annual leather clad bondage parades through town?”

  9. Really? Really?

    What the fuck is this “I do not believe people should segregate themselves based on the very thing they are crying discrimination about?”

    We can’t currently marry, by your own explanation this should be as natural a right as parking your car or hitting a Denny’s, aand yet if we kick up a fuss about this, it’s “segregating ourselves?”

    Do you think that if we’ll just sit quietly in the back of the bus and occasionally make puppy eyes at passers-by, we’ll just be handed our rights?

    • I don’t think anyone is ever handed their rights, no.

      This statement was made towards both that oppose gay rights, and those that support it.

      For those opposed, why escalate it to a point that the gay community feels the need to protest so loudly? If two gay people want to marry, why should it be such a big deal? Why is society more accepting of divorce and adultery than to allow two people in love to be together?

      For those supporting, as mentioned in another comment, why the leather bound parade? Is that how all gay people dress? Is that the typical day to day behavior of all gay people? Of course not. Is pinching my ass ok because you’re gay? If you were straight, you’d be charged with harassment or assault, so why the special treatment? Why is government afraid to treat with equality when it isn’t in favor of the minority group?

      To me it’s just sad that neither party can see this important issue will never be resolved without mutual respect for human beings, open and understanding communication, and an acceptance of what true equality is.

      If I’ve offended people, good! Obviously whatever everyone is doing thus far hasn’t worked. Maybe this passion I’m seeing in these comments will be channeled into untried methods on both sides to simply get over yourselves, work it out, and get on with your lives.

      Idealistic? Yes.

      Children understand these concepts better than we do. They don’t care about colour, class, sexual preference. It’s us as adults that instill intolerance and prejudice into this war.

      Maybe we need to stop overcomplicating things, and sit in our respective corners until we think about we’ve done, and learn to get along.

      Children don’t make war. We can learn from that.

      Honestly, if you’re gay, fantastic. Does that give you the right to tell me if I dint accept homosexuality into my world view that I am intolerant?

      If I told you “God rejects gays and condemns you to hell”, would you accept that world view?

      We’re all different. We all have unique perspectives and beliefs forged from our experiences.

      It’s finding common ground to stand on that moves us to grow as a society.

      Thing is, both parties have to stand on the commonality, not bicker on the differences.

      So yes, really. Be gay. Don’t be gay. Be black. Don’t be black. Be a Christian. Don’t be a Christian. Be handicapped. Don’t be handicapped. I will like you or dislike you based on how you treat me directly, with no prior preconceptions or judgements.

  10. I used to have a room mate and a friend. He happened to be gay as well, but that isn’t what defined him. He was my friend, that defined our relationship and the fact that he was my room mate was just convenient as we had many things in common, just not our taste in partners.

    Yes I’m heterosexual but I don’t think that that word defines me.
    Yes, I believe in gay rights as much as I believe in human rights. The latter should encompass the former, if it doesn’t then we have failed as a race.
    Yes I believe gays should be allowed to marry, as should anyone of any religion, creed, colour, sexual preference. Again, it’s a right that should be encompassed by a single title.

    In short, I agree w/ Roc. Rights are earned and, yes, there is a fight on currently to crush those rights. The battle is being won, but it’s hard fought by both sides.

    The bottom line is that it’s a human right to be treated equally. To me, the statement above (while possibly inflammatory) conveys how things should be. It shouldn’t even be a question that all are equal. Of course we are. Many right-wing oriented people just have a hard time getting it through their thick skull.

  11. Well, I have to say that until gays are treated no differently than other people, we do need to evangelize for their rights.

    My father had a saying that if a piece of metal is bent, just bending it straight and letting go leave it bent. Sometimes you have to bend it past the point, and when you let go, then it’s straight.

    I also liked this article on Eve Tribune about Eve and racism. And yeah, I do equate gay rights with all human rights.

    http://www.eve-tribune.com/index.php?no=6_7&page=4

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